2020 Marie Curie Individual Fellowship (H2020-MSCA-IF-2020)

[PetetheCat]

Is it possible that the status change happened a while ago and 99% of this forum participants just happened to remain in Submission?

i am still submission

I don't think so. Last time it mostly seemed to indicate whether or not a proposal scored over 70. The last two years there was a good run in on it, so I am really wondering if they changed something about their steps this year and we will just get results.

This waiting is hard, but I found this board two years ago when it was the first time that they gave the results on the actual day they were due, after previous years of always sending them early. I think it is less surprising to all of us this year, given the challenges that everyone faces (and they have had new funding streams to manage for rapid-response Covid research, Brexit, etc. - lots of work, I'm sure) that they don't release results until the deadline.

I am trying to get into the mindset of thinking about how it will be when I don't get the funding so that I can be ready for this moment.

[lifmc2020]

even if status updates don't happen, we will still have the results 1 week from today.

[PetetheCat]

But the responsibility is part of the fun! I am in the CAR panel and have done other stuff with my life. I would love a research position (and especially to do this project), but other jobs can be fun and rewarding. I have many reasons I want to get the MSCA funding and would love this opportunity, but other things will come along and I would certainly not want to be a postdoc forever.

I completely agree with you, PetetheCat, and I am in a very similar situation to yours.
I would add that the fact that some researchers actually prefer the “postdoc life”, which, yes, can be easier and fun, is the very reason why organizations have started to impose restrictions and limitations on who can apply – included, as we’ve discussed earlier, Horizon Europe for MSCA. I guess it has to do with the way one sees a postdoc – as just another research position, or as step that will prepare them for their academic / research career. If it’s the latter, then it is obvious why you cannot be a postdoc forever. PhD positions sometimes pay well, but we all agree that one cannot be a PhD fellow forever.

I agree but today you have no choice: either you go for a professorship after you postdocs or you quit. But I think you can do very good research and take your responsibility also as postdoc. The only difference is that you don't have to run an entire lab etc.
Also, you're putting two different things on the same level imho..
The postdoc fellow is a professional, the PhD is part of your education. Of course you can't go for the PhD forever, but it's not true the opposite I guess

But the idea of a postdoc is that it is a training position within a larger career. There is no progression within it. What would happen if you had someone who was a postdoc for 20 years? They make sense at a later stage if you were out of academia or have some different experience that you want to bring back in. That's why I think the CAR scheme is fantastic. There are very few opportunities of this type.

I think that a problem with academia is that the postdoc is predicated on the idea of moving along to something else. And we do not have enough academic jobs so that postdocs can do their work, develop their skills, and then move into an appropriate next position.

[PetetheCat]

even if status updates don't happen, we will still have the results 1 week from today.

This is 100% true. In seven days we will all know.

[no42]

I completely agree with you, PetetheCat, and I am in a very similar situation to yours.
I would add that the fact that some researchers actually prefer the “postdoc life”, which, yes, can be easier and fun, is the very reason why organizations have started to impose restrictions and limitations on who can apply – included, as we’ve discussed earlier, Horizon Europe for MSCA. I guess it has to do with the way one sees a postdoc – as just another research position, or as step that will prepare them for their academic / research career. If it’s the latter, then it is obvious why you cannot be a postdoc forever. PhD positions sometimes pay well, but we all agree that one cannot be a PhD fellow forever.

I agree but today you have no choice: either you go for a professorship after you postdocs or you quit. But I think you can do very good research and take your responsibility also as postdoc. The only difference is that you don't have to run an entire lab etc.
Also, you're putting two different things on the same level imho..
The postdoc fellow is a professional, the PhD is part of your education. Of course you can't go for the PhD forever, but it's not true the opposite I guess

But the idea of a postdoc is that it is a training position within a larger career. There is no progression within it. What would happen if you had someone who was a postdoc for 20 years? They make sense at a later stage if you were out of academia or have some different experience that you want to bring back in. That's why I think the CAR scheme is fantastic. There are very few opportunities of this type.

I think that a problem with academia is that the postdoc is predicated on the idea of moving along to something else. And we do not have enough academic jobs so that postdocs can do their work, develop their skills, and then move into an appropriate next position.

On that note, I think I saw a post in this board somewhere that an assistant professor wanted-to-apply/has-applied for a MSCA fellowship. I didn't even know that a tenure track faculty could apply for a MSCA fellowship. Isn't MSCA individual/global fellowship a kind of postdoc fellowship ? If so, I'd be confused why someone likes to "demote" themselves in their career (sorry if thats rude). Could it be because of pay ?

[Greyrock]

Still no change anybody?

I am still in Evaluation... I know next week this time I should know the result, but can't focus on other stuff

I’m glad to hear others can’t focus this week either. The wait is maddening. Tick tock, tick tock 🥴🥴

[Amar]

I agree but today you have no choice: either you go for a professorship after you postdocs or you quit. But I think you can do very good research and take your responsibility also as postdoc. The only difference is that you don't have to run an entire lab etc.
Also, you're putting two different things on the same level imho..
The postdoc fellow is a professional, the PhD is part of your education. Of course you can't go for the PhD forever, but it's not true the opposite I guess

But the idea of a postdoc is that it is a training position within a larger career. There is no progression within it. What would happen if you had someone who was a postdoc for 20 years? They make sense at a later stage if you were out of academia or have some different experience that you want to bring back in. That's why I think the CAR scheme is fantastic. There are very few opportunities of this type.

I think that a problem with academia is that the postdoc is predicated on the idea of moving along to something else. And we do not have enough academic jobs so that postdocs can do their work, develop their skills, and then move into an appropriate next position.

On that note, I think I saw a post in this board somewhere that an assistant professor wanted-to-apply/has-applied for a MSCA fellowship. I didn't even know that a tenure track faculty could apply for a MSCA fellowship. Isn't MSCA individual/global fellowship a kind of postdoc fellowship ? If so, I'd be confused why someone likes to "demote" themselves in their career (sorry if thats rude). Could it be because of pay ?

That's why they are going to change the criteria next year.
Can someone make comparison between my skills and track record (newly postdoc) and some assistant professor?
If yes, is it ok to rank us together?

[PetetheCat]

But the idea of a postdoc is that it is a training position within a larger career. There is no progression within it. What would happen if you had someone who was a postdoc for 20 years? They make sense at a later stage if you were out of academia or have some different experience that you want to bring back in. That's why I think the CAR scheme is fantastic. There are very few opportunities of this type.

I think that a problem with academia is that the postdoc is predicated on the idea of moving along to something else. And we do not have enough academic jobs so that postdocs can do their work, develop their skills, and then move into an appropriate next position.

On that note, I think I saw a post in this board somewhere that an assistant professor wanted-to-apply/has-applied for a MSCA fellowship. I didn't even know that a tenure track faculty could apply for a MSCA fellowship. Isn't MSCA individual/global fellowship a kind of postdoc fellowship ? If so, I'd be confused why someone likes to "demote" themselves in their career (sorry if thats rude). Could it be because of pay ?

That's why they are going to change the criteria next year.
Can someone make comparison between my skills and track record (newly postdoc) and some assistant professor?
If yes, is it ok to rank us together?

They are supposed to be able to compare - the CV should then be important to see what you have been doing. And there are all kinds of unique circumstances that could shape this. Someone could be in a teaching-heavy role and want to get back to being centered on research. Someone else could want to move countries and have the opportunity to integrate into academia within the EU. And others might want the opportunity to change the trajectory and develop a new area for research. I think that the great thing about the MSCA scheme is that it is open to some of these things that are not possible through other postdoc schemes. The guidelines for the scheme are clear about these parameters.

[GuyFromSpace]

On that note, I think I saw a post in this board somewhere that an assistant professor wanted-to-apply/has-applied for a MSCA fellowship. I didn't even know that a tenure track faculty could apply for a MSCA fellowship. Isn't MSCA individual/global fellowship a kind of postdoc fellowship ? If so, I'd be confused why someone likes to "demote" themselves in their career (sorry if thats rude). Could it be because of pay ?

It's technically allowed. Yes, you are demoting yourself if you go from a tenure-track position to a MSCA IF that, like you said, is essentially a postdoc. Such a person would almost certainly not get the fellowship. Remember, MSCA IF is first and foremost about training and enhancing future career prospects. The evaluators don't really care much about your past research track or your planned project because they aren't qualified to judge that precisely (e.g., if your project is in particle physics, your evaluator might be an astrophysicist—someone who can read and understand the physics of your project, but can't judge the finer details and merits of the particle physics). What they can judge is the extent to which the project will boost the fellow's career. It would be very difficult, if not downright impossible, to successfully argue that going from a tenure-track position to a MSCA fellowship would be a boost to one's career.

[lifmc2020]

They are supposed to be able to compare - the CV should then be important to see what you have been doing. And there are all kinds of unique circumstances that could shape this. Someone could be in a teaching-heavy role and want to get back to being centered on research. Someone else could want to move countries and have the opportunity to integrate into academia within the EU. And others might want the opportunity to change the trajectory and develop a new area for research. I think that the great thing about the MSCA scheme is that it is open to some of these things that are not possible through other postdoc schemes. The guidelines for the scheme are clear about these parameters.

I agree, its the most flexible scheme I've seen. I read the new age limit is an attempt to increase success rates... but if this even occurs it will be an artificial increase in my opinion. ii think the number of applicants will keep going up and up regardless of restrictions and this success rate will actually go down.