2022 Marie Curie Postdoctoral Fellowship (HE-MSCA-PF-2022)

skm
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:06 am

Re: 2022 Marie Curie Postdoctoral Fellowship (HE-MSCA-PF-2022)

Post by skm » Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:10 pm

michelef wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 12:41 pm

No unfortunately the resubmission restriction concerns the applicant, not the project. So if you get a too low score you cannot apply the following year irrespective of whether the project is the same or a completely different project. It works the same as the ERC resubmission restriction

This may indeed be one of the causes for the sharp reduction in applications, i.e., people are thinking twice before applying as if they are not ready and get a too low score they won't be able to apply the following year
are you sure?
i have re-checked what they wrote in guidelines.
i don't read it that way. Or any other clause gives such an impression, that even new proposals cannot be submitted.
it only talks about 'previous proposals', 'same host', 'if got < 70%'. in that, where does it mean that NEW proposals with new host cannot be submitted, if any one gets < 70%?

And you said
i.e., people are thinking twice before applying as if they are not ready and get a too low score they won't be able to apply the following year
there were many such previous instances people shared on this forum, that their score was, say 90%, but not selected, and the same proposal submitted after updating, they got <80% (these scores, just dummy values i used for discussion). Means its not sure even you think twice or thrice, whether to submit or not, doesn't matter, really.
Regards

KathyHappy
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2022 7:42 am

Re: 2022 Marie Curie Postdoctoral Fellowship (HE-MSCA-PF-2022)

Post by KathyHappy » Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:44 pm

I agree with you. If an applicant with a host A got <70 last year and would like to resubmit one this year, all he/she needs to do is to find a new host B and then submit one proposal. That's all. The resubmission restriction is for the same applicant and the same host. Changing any one of them could break it equally, although for us as applicants, the only choice left is to change a host.
skm wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:10 pm
i have re-checked what they wrote in guidelines.
i don't read it that way. Or any other clause gives such an impression, that even new proposals cannot be submitted.
it only talks about 'previous proposals', 'same host', 'if got < 70%'. in that, where does it mean that NEW proposals with new host cannot be submitted, if any one gets < 70%?

Fu Manchu
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2020 5:43 pm

Re: 2022 Marie Curie Postdoctoral Fellowship (HE-MSCA-PF-2022)

Post by Fu Manchu » Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:16 pm

KathyHappy wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:44 pm
I agree with you. If an applicant with a host A got <70 last year and would like to resubmit one this year, all he/she needs to do is to find a new host B and then submit one proposal. That's all. The resubmission restriction is for the same applicant and the same host. Changing any one of them could break it equally, although for us as applicants, the only choice left is to change a host.
skm wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:10 pm
i have re-checked what they wrote in guidelines.
i don't read it that way. Or any other clause gives such an impression, that even new proposals cannot be submitted.
it only talks about 'previous proposals', 'same host', 'if got < 70%'. in that, where does it mean that NEW proposals with new host cannot be submitted, if any one gets < 70%?
Indeed. I think the reduction comes exactly from the difficulty of finding a new host and a new supervisor. Some people just dont have the time to look for the details of a department that they dont know. The 8 year eligibility also plays a role in that.

Anyway, I am not from maths, but I think the approval rate got slightly better. 1/6 against 1/8 in the last years.

michelef
Posts: 272
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:33 pm

Re: 2022 Marie Curie Postdoctoral Fellowship (HE-MSCA-PF-2022)

Post by michelef » Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:56 pm

skm wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:10 pm
michelef wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 12:41 pm

No unfortunately the resubmission restriction concerns the applicant, not the project. So if you get a too low score you cannot apply the following year irrespective of whether the project is the same or a completely different project. It works the same as the ERC resubmission restriction

This may indeed be one of the causes for the sharp reduction in applications, i.e., people are thinking twice before applying as if they are not ready and get a too low score they won't be able to apply the following year
are you sure?
i have re-checked what they wrote in guidelines.
i don't read it that way. Or any other clause gives such an impression, that even new proposals cannot be submitted.
it only talks about 'previous proposals', 'same host', 'if got < 70%'. in that, where does it mean that NEW proposals with new host cannot be submitted, if any one gets < 70%?

And you said
i.e., people are thinking twice before applying as if they are not ready and get a too low score they won't be able to apply the following year
there were many such previous instances people shared on this forum, that their score was, say 90%, but not selected, and the same proposal submitted after updating, they got <80% (these scores, just dummy values i used for discussion). Means its not sure even you think twice or thrice, whether to submit or not, doesn't matter, really.
Regards
I think it's up to interpretation of the guidelines.

The guide says "proposals involving the same recruiting organisation [...] and individual researcher submitted to the previous call of MSCA postdoctoral fellowship under Horizon Europe and having received a score of less than 70% must not be resubmitted the following year."

If the "and" means that both conditions should be met to exclude the resubmission (both same organisation and researcher), then yes, if you change host you can resubmit. If "the same individual researcher" in itself prevents the resubmission, then it doesn't matter if you change supervisor. Considering how unclear and obscure these rules usually are, I would not be surprised if it is just poor writing and they meant OR instead of AND. So I conservatively assumed that it's the individual researcher that gets banned from submittig (as in the case of the ERC), and not the proposal. But well, if you can change supervisor and resubmit that would certainly be better

KathyHappy
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2022 7:42 am

Re: 2022 Marie Curie Postdoctoral Fellowship (HE-MSCA-PF-2022)

Post by KathyHappy » Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:42 pm

michelef wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:56 pm
I think it's up to interpretation of the guidelines.

The guide says "proposals involving the same recruiting organisation [...] and individual researcher submitted to the previous call of MSCA postdoctoral fellowship under Horizon Europe and having received a score of less than 70% must not be resubmitted the following year."

If the "and" means that both conditions should be met to exclude the resubmission (both same organisation and researcher), then yes, if you change host you can resubmit. If "the same individual researcher" in itself prevents the resubmission, then it doesn't matter if you change supervisor. Considering how unclear and obscure these rules usually are, I would not be surprised if it is just poor writing and they meant OR instead of AND. So I conservatively assumed that it's the individual researcher that gets banned from submittig (as in the case of the ERC), and not the proposal. But well, if you can change supervisor and resubmit that would certainly be better
I don't think it's a good idea to assume so easily that it might be an "OR" instead of "AND". I just checked the ERC rules and it says nothing about the host (in this case, perhaps I should say the institution where the PI is hired), instead, all restrictions are about the PI and the evaluation outcomes.

michelef
Posts: 272
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:33 pm

Re: 2022 Marie Curie Postdoctoral Fellowship (HE-MSCA-PF-2022)

Post by michelef » Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:56 pm

KathyHappy wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:42 pm
michelef wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:56 pm
I think it's up to interpretation of the guidelines.

The guide says "proposals involving the same recruiting organisation [...] and individual researcher submitted to the previous call of MSCA postdoctoral fellowship under Horizon Europe and having received a score of less than 70% must not be resubmitted the following year."

If the "and" means that both conditions should be met to exclude the resubmission (both same organisation and researcher), then yes, if you change host you can resubmit. If "the same individual researcher" in itself prevents the resubmission, then it doesn't matter if you change supervisor. Considering how unclear and obscure these rules usually are, I would not be surprised if it is just poor writing and they meant OR instead of AND. So I conservatively assumed that it's the individual researcher that gets banned from submittig (as in the case of the ERC), and not the proposal. But well, if you can change supervisor and resubmit that would certainly be better
I don't think it's a good idea to assume so easily that it might be an "OR" instead of "AND". I just checked the ERC rules and it says nothing about the host (in this case, perhaps I should say the institution where the PI is hired), instead, all restrictions are about the PI and the evaluation outcomes.
When it comes to the EU guidelines, I always assume that they opted for the worst and most nonsensical idea, like the ERC restriction rule... But yeah, written like that it implies that you could in fact resubmit with a different host

skm
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:06 am

Re: 2022 Marie Curie Postdoctoral Fellowship (HE-MSCA-PF-2022)

Post by skm » Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:24 am

hi
i don't understand why so much confusion.
Please understand in mathematical way, as i am not EXPERT in English, neither in Maths, but at least can say something about Maths.
there are 3 variables (1) host organisation, (2) proposal, and (3) score, if these three variables HAVE certain values in this 2022 call, then its NOT ELIGIBLE resubmit. And the values that make a proposal NOT ELIGIBLE for resubmission are (1) same host, (2) same proposal, and (3) scored < 70%.
If you change any of the values of (1) and (2) , you can resubmit a proposal. This doesn't prevent a candidate himself/herself to submit a proposal "at all" in next call. This is 'what' exactly the English meaning of the rule.

KathyHappy
Posts: 57
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2022 7:42 am

Re: 2022 Marie Curie Postdoctoral Fellowship (HE-MSCA-PF-2022)

Post by KathyHappy » Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:41 am

skm wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:24 am
hi
i don't understand why so much confusion.
Please understand in mathematical way, as i am not EXPERT in English, neither in Maths, but at least can say something about Maths.
there are 3 variables (1) host organisation, (2) proposal, and (3) score, if these three variables HAVE certain values in this 2022 call, then its NOT ELIGIBLE resubmit. And the values that make a proposal NOT ELIGIBLE for resubmission are (1) same host, (2) same proposal, and (3) scored < 70%.
If you change any of the values of (1) and (2) , you can resubmit a proposal. This doesn't prevent a candidate himself/herself to submit a proposal "at all" in next call. This is 'what' exactly the English meaning of the rule.
No, the variables (so are the values of restraints) are (1) the same host organisation, (2) same individual researcher/applicant/fellow, and (3) scores.
I agree with you regarding the other contents left

FairEnough
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2022 10:07 am

Re: 2022 Marie Curie Postdoctoral Fellowship (HE-MSCA-PF-2022)

Post by FairEnough » Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:18 am

I got less than 70% in 2020.

I changed the host and slightly the topic last call in 2021 and was awarded finally.

Best of luck
KathyHappy wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:41 am
skm wrote:
Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:24 am
hi
i don't understand why so much confusion.
Please understand in mathematical way, as i am not EXPERT in English, neither in Maths, but at least can say something about Maths.
there are 3 variables (1) host organisation, (2) proposal, and (3) score, if these three variables HAVE certain values in this 2022 call, then its NOT ELIGIBLE resubmit. And the values that make a proposal NOT ELIGIBLE for resubmission are (1) same host, (2) same proposal, and (3) scored < 70%.
If you change any of the values of (1) and (2) , you can resubmit a proposal. This doesn't prevent a candidate himself/herself to submit a proposal "at all" in next call. This is 'what' exactly the English meaning of the rule.
No, the variables (so are the values of restraints) are (1) the same host organisation, (2) same individual researcher/applicant/fellow, and (3) scores.
I agree with you regarding the other contents left

skm
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2022 4:06 am

Re: 2022 Marie Curie Postdoctoral Fellowship (HE-MSCA-PF-2022)

Post by skm » Sun Sep 18, 2022 7:40 am

I got less than 70% in 2020.

I changed the host and slightly the topic last call in 2021 and was awarded finally.
good.
its possible, logically. and while answering general questions in the portal about 'whether you submitted this similar proposal before?' you might have answered as NO. right?

by the way what was the rule in 2021 about resubmissions? 'same'?
Regards

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